Howdy friends!  Yea… howdy.

We’re back from a trip to Austin Texas… where the air is hot and the tacos are plentiful.

We attended a Blogher Food Conference where we felt all sorts of weird and introverted.  Tracy didn’t get toooo truthy, but Joy left with a vulnerability hangover… let’s discuss.

We can’t talk about vulnerability without summoning the expert:  Brene Brown.  Tracy is reading, The Gifts of Imperfection: Let Go of Who You Think You’re Supposed to Be and Embrace Who You Are.  Get a load of that title.  Let the change wash over you.



Oh!  Also important to note:  Joy finally figured out what to get Casey (Tracy’s husband) for Father’s Day!  Wines By Wives brought to you by The Real Housewives of Orange County.  What could go wrong?  Nothing… ever.

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Austin was a fun place to explore!  The air feels different.  The people are tattooed and know good coffee.  We had a maj time and made new MAJ friends.  People who will crash a party for you are new friends indeed!

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This is where Joy caught her vulnerability hangover… speaking on a panel at Blogher Food.  That’s just real.


The cure for this hangover is always CATS!

Some outdoor restaurants have cats in them.  No biggie (total biggie!!).

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We stayed at the San Jose Hotel where the staff is lovely and the sangria is extra fruity… and they give you a spear to eat the fruit.  Thank you for anticipating our needs!!!

Thank you for listening to our podcast about vulnerability.  Even if you were just hate listening… we thank you… because we’re nice (not really).  Get in the arena with us.  Let’s hang out and teach each other how to do cart wheels because they’re actually harder than we think.  We salute you for doing scary things like moving to Manhattan, or writing letters to us about things you find distasteful.  Everything is so much… and we’re glad we’re in this together.

Maybe one day Joy will be as nice as you think she is.  She’s working on it… forever.

Boom boom POW! (it’s a lifestyle)


Leave a Reply

38 comments on “Shame Hangover

  1. I got an urge to comment so I’ll just go with it – you know how if you’re watching a show on-demand, you usually fast forward through the intro or whatnot? I love listening the song at the end of your show! Even more, it is always in my head. Not in a bad way. In an “I’m so happy right now and it’s probably because this song is in my head because I only associate good things with it” sort of way. You ladies are awesome and give INFJs a good name (as if Gandhi didn’t already do that). Anyways, thanks to you and your real-talk and song (jingle? Is there a term I am not using?) my day is going to be fabulous and I thank you for that (because other than listening to you two, work is never fun).

  2. Guys, I needed this podcast this morning. THANK YOU for your words and your humor!

  3. this podcast really hit home. i ALWAYS have a vulnerability hangover after i talk to my mom and sisters. i usually try to distance myself from them just enough to avoid the inevitable drama-fest that is every family get together, but for some reason i either say too much or too little and leave with this ugly sinking feeling in my gut. then the next day i smack myself on the head for saying all of those things about my personal life that i should have left unsaid.

    anyways, good to know i’m not the only one who feels this way at times!!

  4. April Mae Jun 13, 2013

    Dear Tracy and Joy,

    I am marathon listening while painting walls cotton whisper aka white. Couple of things, I have been to Alcatraz at least twenty times. I chaperone foreign exchange students to “the rock” as they call it, as part if their trip across America. It’s the best when some of them actually think it is still in use because their English is well—a foreign language. Good news too ladies because there are overnight stays on Alacatraz with bunk beds!!

    Behind Bars,

    April Mae

  5. Thank you for making my day! So needed. I have to say the party crashers are awesome! Joy, just dance….just dance and then share a salad.

  6. I loved this, and thank you so much for being having enough courage to share your feelings! I absolutely adore Brene Brown, although I think my favorite book of hers is Daring Greatly. It literally changed my life. (PS I think what Brene Brown says to do for a shame hangover is to share your experience with someone you trust…) Thank you for this, ladies! The real is so awesome!

  7. Do you know that Paul Reiser’s wife’s name is Paula? #truefact

    • Tracy Jun 14, 2013

      Crazy!! I was almost named Paula. My dad is named Paul and my mom put the kebash on that idea. #truefact

  8. I’m so excited I got to meet you two on Friday night. I was kicking myself after listening to this because my roommate and I were going to sneak into Stubbs, but our scaredy pants rule following selves had something else to say about the matter. Boooo. Inspired by those badass chicks. Glad you two had fun in Austin!

  9. Hey ladies, for the NY girl, there is a blogger (blog) called A Cup of Jo and she does a couple of NYC city guides.
    Tracy, you are rocking that short hair in every photo!

  10. Courtney Odle Jun 14, 2013

    Y’all, I’m a PURE Texan… and EVERY miss is referred to as ma’am. Don’t feel old by it. It’s just sweet manners. LOVE that you LOVED ATX!

    • Courtney Odle Jun 14, 2013

      FURTHERMORE! whoa, way to go Meg and Kris! I can easily see myself attempting some similar shenanigans. Dive into real life fun!

      I totally agree that it seems like when cyber-space-inter-webs-world meets the real life… things get .. weird. “hey, i know your screen name.. i like your stuff.. we have comment conversations … i’m totally uncomfortable seeing you in the flesh.”

      Whenever I feel a shame/vulnerability hangover coming on.. the only way for me to shake it off.. is to literally shake it off and go “ughghabladadabada”. Then I’m like “it’s cool girl. you got this.”

      word. I’m cutting me off, now.

    • Ellen W Jun 18, 2013

      Another Texan adding my two cents – being called ma’am is polite, not an indication of age. We’re teaching our boys to say ma’am and sir along with adding a Mr or Miss when speaking to adults. I would introduce my boys to you as Miss Joy and Miss Tracy.

  11. Lindsay White Jun 14, 2013

    Thank you so much for this podcast. I listened to it while running in the woods, which was pretty perfect. It’s inspiring to hear you both be so candid and kind and, of late, I’m finding relief in hearing that some isolating experiences are common.

    Thanks again. Keep up the amazingness.

  12. Ladies –

    I (almost always) love you guys. I’ve listened to every podcast, I read your blogs, I’ve made some of your recipes and I have Joy’s book. You’ve entertained me for years and I thank you for that.

    This next part is for Tracy…

    I was frustrated from the start of this podcast when you said you crashed Blogher. I was waiting for you to explain why you didn’t register and pay. It never happened so I’m feeling the need to share some real talk.

    Blogher is a world you are part of. People look up to you. You are not anonymous. Crashing the conference was disrespectful to all the people who paid to attend and who hope to achieve the success you’re enjoying.

    I have been a corporate event planner for more than 20 years. Whether the Blogher organizers said anything to you or not, choosing to attend without paying is disrespectful to them. It wasn’t a spur-of-the-moment, I-live-in-Austin-so-I’ll-just-pop-in-for-Joy’s-panel, shenanigan. You bought a plane ticket, got a hotel room and made your way to Austin all with the intention of crashing a conference. How can you complain about people’s name tags not being more visible when you didn’t pay for one yourself? Stealing drink tickets? Not cool.

    I’m putting this out there, making myself vulnerable, knowing you’ll find this bad comment “entertaining” and you’ll “get a good laugh” and your fans will probably blast me.

    Stepping off and moving on.

    • Tracy Jun 14, 2013

      My purpose for flying to Austin was to make some important business connections, take some meetings and spend time with my dear friends outside of the conference. I never went with the intention of crashing the event. My friends were attending and it was an opportunity for me to go to Austin and see them. After I went to the last conference in Seattle, I saw that buying a ticket to the conference wasn’t the best use of money as I only went to a couple of panels, didn’t eat any of the food and didn’t collect my swag bag. With my experience attending these conferences, I have found that going out with people & having meetings outside of the conference is the best use of my time & energy.

      I didn’t really discuss at any length how much time I spent at the conference. To give you a picture, I flew in at 3PM on Friday. I attended Joy’s panel to root on my friend and then promptly left. On Saturday, I went to the closing get-together of the event. I paid for my drinks (I obviously didn’t have drink tickets), ate one piece of brisket and got in by using my friend’s entry (she had left the night before). I understand where you are coming from and I understand how you are interpreting my actions as disrespectful. I feel it is important to speak your truth, and this is mine.

      Thanks for your comment and thanks for making yourself vulnerable.

  13. Nicci Jun 14, 2013

    Joy and Tracy, thank you for being real and being vulnerable and being yourselves. Listening to your podcast every week is a breath of real air in an increasingly fake world. It’s easy to see how so many people feel like they know you like friends.

    P.S. In less than a month I will be moving back to Arizona (bringing my English husband with me) after living in England for 4 years. Totally overwhelmed with starting over again but can’t wait to go on a big CA roadtrip when we get there. So your podcast on what to do in California has given me some fresh tips. Wish me luck!!

    • I’m in Arizona! What area are you moving to? I’m in Gilbert, a suburb of Phoenix. If you are moving close, and want to make a friend, let’s get coffee! :)

  14. Joy and Tracy, I love your podcast! Been listening since the beginning.

    So no joke, the night before I listened to this episode, I watched Brene Brown’s TED talk on vulnerability (actually I watched both of them). I felt so inspired the next day, I finally reached out to people in my professional network I’d felt too “unprepared” to talk to before, because I didn’t feel I had my “stuff” together. I’ve already heard back from one of them to set up an interview and have coffee dates pending with two more. Here’s to letting go of perfectionism!

    Ladies, thanks so much for sharing your thoughts every week!

    (P.S. Tracy, my go-to is cheese and crackers too :D)

  15. I’m pretty sure I have a shame/vulnerability hangover roughly every five seconds. (Oh no, is this comment going to give me one?)

  16. Selina Jun 14, 2013

    Love this episode, it got real….”it’s exhausting to be normal”. So true. Can we have an episode on what normal is?

  17. Your girls are awesome!

    I love tuning in every week to get your “real talk”. I’m sure you both already realize that not everything you say will be met with nodding heads and smiles. I don’t always agree with everything you guys say, but that is totally cool and we’re all entitled to our own opinions. I find it silly that you guys have to apologize on the podcast all the time for your comments and views. And quite frankly these people that are getting so worked up and huffy about things you say.. well, that’s THEIR problem. Like interpreting that being messy makes you less of a woman?! Come on..

    Keeping doin’ what you do. your references to Seinfeld every once in awhile, “can’t stand ya..”

    Hilarious :)

  18. Hi Joy and Tracy,

    I was the person who wrote in the question about moving in with a dude on the Look What You Made Me Do podcast. In our relationship, he is certainly the more tidy one while I let things clutter up. Tracy, with your answer to my question I didn’t feel at all excluded or like maybe you couldn’t relate to me or that you were implying at all that I was less of a woman or he was less of a man. I thought, “in our situation, it’s flip-flopped so I’ll just flip-flop the advice.” Your point was “don’t make everyone do all of the chores because bitterness is a real thing”. And that’s a gooooood point!

    Furthermore, I wrote to you asking for *your* truth speaking from *your* life experiences and that’s what I look forward to every week when my podcast app alerts me that there’s a new one waiting! If I wanted some generic, pat answer that applies to everyone, everywhere I could have easily Googled it and not wasted anyone’s time. But I didn’t. I said, “I know that Tracy has been in a similar situation and I wonder if she has any life-lived advice.” And you gave me that and I am thankful. Don’t you guys ever change your style. It’s your (to beat a dead horse at this point) vulnerability and honesty that draws me in, and I know I’m not alone.

    Thank you for everything.

    PS Update: My boyfriend and I listened to that podcast and it prompted a string of a lot of real-talk convos about moving in with one another and what we can expect/ try to avoid. It’s not just good advice, but it got us connecting with each other and anticipating the future with a little more direction. I appreciate you so much.

  19. Vulnerability hangover is the perfect way to describe it. I never knew anyone else felt that way. Y’all are a new addition to my podcast library and have very quickly became a favorite.

  20. I loved this podcast! So much real talk – it was excellent!

  21. Good lord . . .

    Can I just say thanks a bunch for being real? I totally know the shame hangover feeling, and that awkwardness that comes with seeing those people afterwards. It’s like doing the walk of shame, but with absolutely no reason to be ashamed! I love listening to you ladies, because you are raw and real. Maybe I don’t agree with 100% of every detail of what you say, but I don’t come to you guys for you to affirm my thoughts and need you to be on board with the way I live my life. I get SO sick of people who try to be 110 % “politically correct” & “nice” constantly, so they dull everything they say until they are using a bunch of words and not really saying anything. You ladies have opinions & experiences that shape you, and you express that well in your blogs and on your websites. If someone doesn’t agree with you, they can switch their podcast. Sigh. ANYWAY! Just wanted to affirm you guys. Been a listener since the beginning and a reader since before, & you gals inspire. Thanks!

  22. I always know I’m going to be more resilient on a day when my new podcast turns up which is a real boost (because it’s usually the end of a looooong week here in Australia). But here is my thought for the weekend. I’m loving being in the kitchen and I always turn to your blogs (and smittenkitchen) for a version of whatever it is that’s in my head to cook, only there seems to be some conspiracy not to show macarons. I get they are fiddly and require forethought (oh how I hate having to prep days in advance for anything!) but I need your help. These little pieces of heavenly delight are something I want in my face this weekend and I don’t want to be paying two or three dollars for two bites of sunshine when I could make them myself for two or three dollars for a dozen if I get it right.

    I know there are plenty of sites that show how to do it, but I need it shown with humour. And compassion. And possibly a twist or three. Any tips?

  23. Hey Jen! This is Anna the evil commenter. I didn’t write that email because I wanted an apology. I wrote it since I love the podcast. I felt it was a shame that Joy and Tracy kept using the phrase “women do” or “women are”. I didn’t say that I felt like less of a women, but that the phrase was excluding and frankly just irritating. If I didn’t like the podcast so much I probably would let it go. And I think the explanation I got was a real one. I get that somebody might use broad phrases when talking about one’s family, I just don’t like being told whatelet women are like.

  24. great post, as per usual! yes, I went to my first blogging conference last year and felt the weirdness and awkwardness that comes with being in a room with 450+ ladies. Shew law. Hoping I’ll be more resilient this year!

  25. Thank you for mentioning Brene Brown’s TED Talks. I watched both and am now reading her first book, “I Thought it was Just Me (But it Isn’t)”, which is exactly what I needed right now and didn’t even know it!

  26. I’ve recommended this podcast to my blogger friends here in the UK. You two put into words that strange thing about blogging that I’d struggled to articulate before: that vulnerability, that uncomfortable feeling you get after putting something out there. Also the slightly intense world of pro bloggers…

    As a church go-er, I get that same feeling of wanting to act up and be the most authentic, cheeky me when everyone around me is being super polite and holy!

    I’m an illustrator, so have you two chatting away in the background as I paint. Your honesty and frankness is appreciated and enjoyed. I’d stalk you both! :o)

  27. Maggie Jun 29, 2013

    JOY!!! I worked at a bakery behind the counter, between the ages of 20-21, I was baby-faced, and people called me ma’am too frequently….I HATED it. On the very rare occasion I’d say an awkward, “Oh, I’m just Miss, hehe.” But I have to admit, that was still better than being called “kid”.

  28. Emily Jul 8, 2013

    I’ll take “Ma’am” over “Hey lady” or “Hey baby” any day… but maybe those are in some different situations. In Newfoundland they just called everyone love or dear, which was sweet.

    And thank you guys for a new phrase to add in to my vocabulary (not fifth base, but vulnerability/shame hangover. I know that feeling big time).

  29. Jenny Jul 11, 2013

    Loved your term “vulnerability hangover.” It aptly describes how I feel after talking to certain friends who are closer along to marriage than I am.

  30. maomau Aug 14, 2013

    Doing a bit of podcast marathon. Omg, Tracy! i was just at the most recent Blogher conference. You all totally hit all the feelings I felt at the conference. I felt like a new kid at a new school/speed dating/ “job” fair-ish, cause everyone was passing out business cards. It was overwhelming & awkward esp for a non-super blogger kinda person like me. ha!

  31. Hi!

    So I don’t even know if you’re going to see this comment since this episode is months old now, but I think about this one a lot. Like haven’t-removed-it-from-my-iPod-so-I-can-listen-to-it-in-the-car-in-case-I-need-the-inspiration kind of a lot. It really struck a chord with me and the ingrained the idea that I want to be the kind of person that inspires fun! I want to just do the things and see what happens. And sometimes I am that person and it.feels.great. I understand that sometimes there are consequences to just doing a crazy thing without thinking first, but I just want to tell that part of my brain to just take a seat and chill.

    Anyways, I just read this article and while it’s a little stoney, it reminded me of you two and this episode.

    So I guess here’s to always being your most genuine self and thanks for feeding my ears and my soul. (And my belly with your recipes!)


  32. hey joy and tracy! i listened to this episode back when it first came out but came across this today which i thought really resonates with what you two talked about.
    Thanks for making such a wonderful podcast xx

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